|
Episode 5: SirbrianSirbrian Spease is a formerly-incarcerated artist and author of The Boy of Hearts, the first of a three-part autobiography series from A.B.O. Comix publications. The book - and his interview - detail the abuse Sirbrian endured as a child that resulted in his development of a personality disorder. Sirbrian’s story of acceptance of his mental health challenges, his queer identity, and his alter ego Devon is a heart-wrenching, inspiring end to our first season.
|
INTRO
Conductor Trig: You are now boarding Teleway 411, departing from the realm of brick and barbed wire. Next stop, inside the minds and lives locked away behind bars. Beware of the shifting airwaves as they may cause turbulence. Please stand clear of the evolving doors.
Casper: Dispatching from the Telegraph and Broadway terminal in Oakland, we transport the stories of queer artists in prison througout the United States. Our conversations with people navigating the justice system work to shed light on the reality of life inside. My name is Casper and I am the co-founder and host of Teleway 411, a podcast produced by A.B.O. Comix.
The Teleway was invented because of the archaic routes required to navigate the prison system. The restrictions put in place require creative detours to reach our contributors inside. Communication is halted at the discretion of the prison, and can leave our passengers feeling stranded. However, by using the Teleway to defy space and time, we’re able to come together and traverse the lives that have been stalled indefinitely, while also giving them a push to move them forward.
Joining us on the Teleway today is Sirbrian and his protective alter-ego Devon. Their Homo Thug Swagger comics have been featured in our A.B.O. Anthologies since 2017. And in 2021, we published their first autobiographical book entitled, The Boy of Hearts. We start by talking with Sirbrian about living with a personality disorder diagnosis, growing up in the foster care system, and rainbow Afros. Then, Sirbrian hands the reigns over to Devon who tells us how he was born from Sirbrian's childhood trauma. He tells us about finding love with his wifey boy in prison and his continued commitment to keeping Sirbrian safe. Here's Sirbrian to start us off.
Casper: Dispatching from the Telegraph and Broadway terminal in Oakland, we transport the stories of queer artists in prison througout the United States. Our conversations with people navigating the justice system work to shed light on the reality of life inside. My name is Casper and I am the co-founder and host of Teleway 411, a podcast produced by A.B.O. Comix.
The Teleway was invented because of the archaic routes required to navigate the prison system. The restrictions put in place require creative detours to reach our contributors inside. Communication is halted at the discretion of the prison, and can leave our passengers feeling stranded. However, by using the Teleway to defy space and time, we’re able to come together and traverse the lives that have been stalled indefinitely, while also giving them a push to move them forward.
Joining us on the Teleway today is Sirbrian and his protective alter-ego Devon. Their Homo Thug Swagger comics have been featured in our A.B.O. Anthologies since 2017. And in 2021, we published their first autobiographical book entitled, The Boy of Hearts. We start by talking with Sirbrian about living with a personality disorder diagnosis, growing up in the foster care system, and rainbow Afros. Then, Sirbrian hands the reigns over to Devon who tells us how he was born from Sirbrian's childhood trauma. He tells us about finding love with his wifey boy in prison and his continued commitment to keeping Sirbrian safe. Here's Sirbrian to start us off.
PERSONALITY DISORDER
Sirbrian: Hi, my name is Sirbrian Spease. I have Personality Disorder. I was in prison. That's how I met Casper. Right now, God is good. I got my book published: The Boy of Hearts because of them. And now I'm trying to send it to east state where hopefully I can find a good therapist who would send my story all around the world. So now I'm in therapy and doing one day at a time. That's all I can say.
Casper: Good for you, Sirbrian, I'm so glad to hear that you're doing well. You have said that you wanted to help the world to understand personality disorder a little bit better. Could you give us the definition of what personality disorder is?
Sirbrian: All right. You have two different things, you have Borderline Personality Disorder. And then they say Dissociative Identity Disorder. That is totally different.
You can only get Personality Disorder when you're a child, while the mind is developing. If you have any tragedies while you were a child and if there's no one protecting you from your trauma, that trauma that you're going through will create another personality.
Another personality that's goal is to protect you by any means necessary. It's a distinctive personality. It's not Borderline, like when my body switches over to another body, which is I get triggered. I get triggered by certain things like churches because my mom was a pastor and my mom abused me as a child.
Anything that I see far as anything spiritual triggers me. If I get triggered, me, myself, I go into a safe place and my other personality is my alter ego named Devon. He takes over the body and does whatever it takes to protect the body from homophobia or transphobic abuse. So now sometimes dependent on what's going on.
I might stay in my safe place for a long time because sometimes I go to a farther place where I can fall so far into my PTSD episode that I might go to a different age. If I'm 10 years old and Devon sees that I'm 10 years old at the time. Then he won't give the body back until I'm back to the age where I'm responsible to have the body.
So I won't know what's going on if he doesn't write in our journal, we have a journal. That's how we communicate. While I'm having the body, I write there the small little things that's going on. And I put it in like a small little book so he constantly knows what happened to the body, while I had the body. So it doesn't look like we have Personality Disorder.
Casper: Thank you for explaining that. So just to clarify a little bit for people listening. There's you, Sirbrian. And then there is Devon, who is your alter, who will take over the body when you are triggered. Where do you go while Devon has the body?
Sirbrian: If anybody has read my book, I have an imaginary world that I go to. In my world, it's not imaginary. When I was a child, I had an imaginary world where I had my own Prince, because at that age I felt like I was a woman at heart.
As a child.
So I have this place where being gay is normal.
I guess I fall into a safe place.
Sometimes I take my mind farther back when I was a child, I had a toy action figure at one time that he was like my prince and I was his princess because I was a girl at heart. I was a girl at heart as a child and sad to say, I got rid of him through his decision.
He decided that I should get rid of him. So I flushed him down the toilet as a child, but I still remember those moments that we had. So I go back to those moments and I'm back being eight years old, nine years old where I am like the most comfortable person in the world at the time. So I know that may seem strange to others, but to a person with Personality Disorder.
That's kind of what happens.
Casper: Good for you, Sirbrian, I'm so glad to hear that you're doing well. You have said that you wanted to help the world to understand personality disorder a little bit better. Could you give us the definition of what personality disorder is?
Sirbrian: All right. You have two different things, you have Borderline Personality Disorder. And then they say Dissociative Identity Disorder. That is totally different.
You can only get Personality Disorder when you're a child, while the mind is developing. If you have any tragedies while you were a child and if there's no one protecting you from your trauma, that trauma that you're going through will create another personality.
Another personality that's goal is to protect you by any means necessary. It's a distinctive personality. It's not Borderline, like when my body switches over to another body, which is I get triggered. I get triggered by certain things like churches because my mom was a pastor and my mom abused me as a child.
Anything that I see far as anything spiritual triggers me. If I get triggered, me, myself, I go into a safe place and my other personality is my alter ego named Devon. He takes over the body and does whatever it takes to protect the body from homophobia or transphobic abuse. So now sometimes dependent on what's going on.
I might stay in my safe place for a long time because sometimes I go to a farther place where I can fall so far into my PTSD episode that I might go to a different age. If I'm 10 years old and Devon sees that I'm 10 years old at the time. Then he won't give the body back until I'm back to the age where I'm responsible to have the body.
So I won't know what's going on if he doesn't write in our journal, we have a journal. That's how we communicate. While I'm having the body, I write there the small little things that's going on. And I put it in like a small little book so he constantly knows what happened to the body, while I had the body. So it doesn't look like we have Personality Disorder.
Casper: Thank you for explaining that. So just to clarify a little bit for people listening. There's you, Sirbrian. And then there is Devon, who is your alter, who will take over the body when you are triggered. Where do you go while Devon has the body?
Sirbrian: If anybody has read my book, I have an imaginary world that I go to. In my world, it's not imaginary. When I was a child, I had an imaginary world where I had my own Prince, because at that age I felt like I was a woman at heart.
As a child.
So I have this place where being gay is normal.
I guess I fall into a safe place.
Sometimes I take my mind farther back when I was a child, I had a toy action figure at one time that he was like my prince and I was his princess because I was a girl at heart. I was a girl at heart as a child and sad to say, I got rid of him through his decision.
He decided that I should get rid of him. So I flushed him down the toilet as a child, but I still remember those moments that we had. So I go back to those moments and I'm back being eight years old, nine years old where I am like the most comfortable person in the world at the time. So I know that may seem strange to others, but to a person with Personality Disorder.
That's kind of what happens.
EGO STATES
Casper: The last time I got a chance to speak to Devon, you went to a ballroom and you were hanging out with Prince and there were a bunch of people dancing and it sounded like a really beautiful kind of experience. Is that the place that you like to be?
Sirbrian: Yes. That's where I always try to go and I'd be hoping that sometimes I can see what Prince is thinking and sometimes he knows what my thoughts are. Sometimes Devon gets more stronger with the body, with the mind, when it comes to that. So he'll try to put me in the right place.
So yes, I'll be dancing with Prince and we both are wearing men's attire, but I might wear pink and purple showing that I'm the female. And then he'll wear maybe like a dark blue showing that he's the alpha male.
Casper: That sounds really nice. So when Devon takes over the body, he has notes from you in a journal so he will know what's going on. What kind of stuff do you write in a journal for him?
Sirbrian: I have a journal right here. He knows that he's going to see you.
We all know that Casper is our little brother, so Casper is never going to hurt us. Don't break anything. Don't go outside and think that somebody that's outside. He's going to ask you some questions and he knows that you help wrote the book. So he said that he's gonna try his best to be on his best behavior.
Casper: So do you consider yourself a little bit more on the feminine side? And then Devon's a little bit more on the masculine side?
Sirbrian: Yes. When you hear me talk like a homo thug, that's not me. That's Devon. He's the Homo Thug's Swagger. When we was in prison, I wasn't dating Rico. It was Devon.
Casper: Just to give context for people listening, you did a comic strip while you were in prison called A Homo Thug's Swagger. And it was almost like an autobiographical comic from Devon's perspective. And in prison Rico was Devon's wifey boy. Correct?
Sirbrian: Yes. That's his wifey boy, right there.
Casper: Did you and Devon both interact with Rico while you were in prison?
Sirbrian: Not really. It's like this: once Rico gives me, gives our body a hug, Devon takes the body automatically, but while I'm on the inside, I can feel his emotions. So it feels good. I can only hear a little bit what's going on when they have the body, but at night, I don't have full control, but I can feel like the touch and the hugging and the stuff like that. So that's the only thing I can really feel.
Sirbrian: Yes. That's where I always try to go and I'd be hoping that sometimes I can see what Prince is thinking and sometimes he knows what my thoughts are. Sometimes Devon gets more stronger with the body, with the mind, when it comes to that. So he'll try to put me in the right place.
So yes, I'll be dancing with Prince and we both are wearing men's attire, but I might wear pink and purple showing that I'm the female. And then he'll wear maybe like a dark blue showing that he's the alpha male.
Casper: That sounds really nice. So when Devon takes over the body, he has notes from you in a journal so he will know what's going on. What kind of stuff do you write in a journal for him?
Sirbrian: I have a journal right here. He knows that he's going to see you.
We all know that Casper is our little brother, so Casper is never going to hurt us. Don't break anything. Don't go outside and think that somebody that's outside. He's going to ask you some questions and he knows that you help wrote the book. So he said that he's gonna try his best to be on his best behavior.
Casper: So do you consider yourself a little bit more on the feminine side? And then Devon's a little bit more on the masculine side?
Sirbrian: Yes. When you hear me talk like a homo thug, that's not me. That's Devon. He's the Homo Thug's Swagger. When we was in prison, I wasn't dating Rico. It was Devon.
Casper: Just to give context for people listening, you did a comic strip while you were in prison called A Homo Thug's Swagger. And it was almost like an autobiographical comic from Devon's perspective. And in prison Rico was Devon's wifey boy. Correct?
Sirbrian: Yes. That's his wifey boy, right there.
Casper: Did you and Devon both interact with Rico while you were in prison?
Sirbrian: Not really. It's like this: once Rico gives me, gives our body a hug, Devon takes the body automatically, but while I'm on the inside, I can feel his emotions. So it feels good. I can only hear a little bit what's going on when they have the body, but at night, I don't have full control, but I can feel like the touch and the hugging and the stuff like that. So that's the only thing I can really feel.
THERAPY
Casper: So since you've come home, I think you've seen a few different therapists. What has that been like for you?
Sirbrian: Not that good. In the beginning, I was doing exposure therapy. I suppose the therapy is, it was not good. They put me in a like a padded cell. They said keep it all to myself, but no, I wanted to tell A.B.O. Comix anyway. They put me in a padded cell. They didn't know how serious my Personality Disorder was because each Personality Disorder is distinctive. So they put me in a padded cell and they was saying things to me to see what triggers me.
I gave them a list of things that trigger me. Okay. So they know that crosses trigger me, churches, Jehovah's witnesses, people talking about a religion, Muslims, things like that trigger me. Irons, because my mom burned me with an iron on my chest. I have a big iron mark on my chest. That right there triggers me, irons, needles. Because my mom used to stick me with needles, pieces of glass, broken pieces of glasses, stuff like that trigger me.
They were real brutal. I think it was really disrespectful, but it is what it is. And when I got triggered, Devon switched over and then I left and then you have to talk to Devon about that. Cause I don't know what happened with Devon.
Casper: Does the therapist explain to you what the purpose of exposure therapy is and what the intended outcome is supposed to be?
Sirbrian: Yes. They wanted to see what coping skills that they can use, and grounding techniques where they can use in the circumstances that I'm in. If I'm outside and I'm being triggered they told me to count the bricks on the building, find your favorite color.
And things to ground me. If I'm outside, if there was a bakery coming by, smell the bakery. But you didn't bake no cakes. So somebody else must've baked those cakes, so that lets you know that you're grounding yourself.
So they would say, okay, what does this smell like? It smells like chocolate. When you walk down a certain street, you hear buses, okay. Now you're not driving those buses. So that lets you know that you're bringing yourself back into reality, that's what they say. Reality. My reality is little bit different to other people's, but they said that's how you've bring back in reality.
So that's how they trying to work. It's hard because I had memory loss real bad because when I switched back and forth, if I don't have my diary, I'm going to forget. So that's what they do to me. They're trying to find ways of if I'm around a church, what else is around that church?
If you walk past a church, think about all the stuff that's around it, around a church around your neighborhood. And then when I remember those things was around our church, then it brings me back to reality. That's what they taught me.
Casper: Do you feel like those sorts of grounding techniques have helped you?
Sirbrian: Sometimes, it depends on if I have too much on my plate.
If I'm showed transphobic abuse or homophobic abuse at the time, and I'm being triggered at the same time, they know it's not going to work because it's too much on my plate. Once Devon takes over, I don't know what happens after that. So I can't speak for Devon.
Casper: So right now you were looking for a therapist sorta for the long haul. Is there a specific need that you would like to discuss with a therapist, or do you have any asks for folks listening who might be familiar with personality disorder and could maybe provide a resource for you?
Sirbrian: That's real good.
Okay. I graduated from a program but it wasn't long. It was only like what, five months. That's not enough time for me. This is not a game. Like you can't just do that and leave me out there to try, especially when I have a routine.
I used to have a therapist. She'd call me every morning to see where my mind is and depends on who has the body. They would ground the person. Devon has the body, they would say something to Devon because they know Devon pretty well. I don't know what they say to Devon, I can't really speak for Devon, but whatever they say to Devon, it brings Devon comfortable enough to feel like I'm safe to give me back the body.
So that's what happens. So I'm looking for a therapist who's willing to work with me full time, but it seems like everybody's turning me down because I have Medicaid and they said that everybody that I'm going to they're trying to say like you are full time project so, you can't afford our services. They felt like they were in danger for me to be there. They said, I'm sorry, we can't have you here because we just get to know you. And this is like a mental health and drug treatment. And then we don't have time to like, be focused on hoping that somebody doesn't say the wrong thing. That's what gets to me, I feel like I'm being painted into a corner. That everybody's saying the same thing to me. And I'm looking for a group where everybody has what I have.
So then it won't be like, have I switched over? No one will be afraid because they understand what Personality Disorder is. And I can't help what Devon does. People don't understand that I can't speak for Devon, people don't understand it. And I switch back and forth, I altered back and forth at the program. They was like, look, this is too much. And then one therapist got afraid of me and told everybody else , and then that made me feel like I was in the corner. Actually right now to this day, I just graduated.
And guess what? I have no therapist. I have no therapy because I can't find, no therapist who willing to take me on full time, who does Personality Disorder. So I'm trying to send my book out here to get people understand what Personality Disorder is. It's not my fault. And I feel like giving up because it's like, all I got is my book.
Casper: And it's really devastating because anybody who knows you can see how hard you try and you've made so much progress. And to be turned down by therapists and turned away. It's just awful for all of us to see that happen to you. I think you even tried calling the White House to see if somebody could find you a therapist. What happened with that?
Sirbrian: Knowing that I'm in a situation where no therapy wants to help me. Nobody wants to take my case on, because they said that, you don't have the money or we don't have this, or we don't have that. I said, okay you know how much I take it to the president, then I'm gonna try to take it to the president.
I called the White House. I said, I have a book. It's about Personality Disorder and I wrote a book about it and how it's developed as a child.
I want the whole world to understand what Personality Disorder and people stopped saying I have a Dissociative Identity D isorder. I'm talking to you, right? Casper. So how do I have a Dissociative Identity Disorder? That has nothing to do with Personality Disorder, that's how I feel.
So I told the White House that. I didn't know if they was afraid of me. Maybe I didn't have nobody to represent me. She made me feel like they was going to come and get me or something.
I said maybe I should hang up.
Sirbrian: Not that good. In the beginning, I was doing exposure therapy. I suppose the therapy is, it was not good. They put me in a like a padded cell. They said keep it all to myself, but no, I wanted to tell A.B.O. Comix anyway. They put me in a padded cell. They didn't know how serious my Personality Disorder was because each Personality Disorder is distinctive. So they put me in a padded cell and they was saying things to me to see what triggers me.
I gave them a list of things that trigger me. Okay. So they know that crosses trigger me, churches, Jehovah's witnesses, people talking about a religion, Muslims, things like that trigger me. Irons, because my mom burned me with an iron on my chest. I have a big iron mark on my chest. That right there triggers me, irons, needles. Because my mom used to stick me with needles, pieces of glass, broken pieces of glasses, stuff like that trigger me.
They were real brutal. I think it was really disrespectful, but it is what it is. And when I got triggered, Devon switched over and then I left and then you have to talk to Devon about that. Cause I don't know what happened with Devon.
Casper: Does the therapist explain to you what the purpose of exposure therapy is and what the intended outcome is supposed to be?
Sirbrian: Yes. They wanted to see what coping skills that they can use, and grounding techniques where they can use in the circumstances that I'm in. If I'm outside and I'm being triggered they told me to count the bricks on the building, find your favorite color.
And things to ground me. If I'm outside, if there was a bakery coming by, smell the bakery. But you didn't bake no cakes. So somebody else must've baked those cakes, so that lets you know that you're grounding yourself.
So they would say, okay, what does this smell like? It smells like chocolate. When you walk down a certain street, you hear buses, okay. Now you're not driving those buses. So that lets you know that you're bringing yourself back into reality, that's what they say. Reality. My reality is little bit different to other people's, but they said that's how you've bring back in reality.
So that's how they trying to work. It's hard because I had memory loss real bad because when I switched back and forth, if I don't have my diary, I'm going to forget. So that's what they do to me. They're trying to find ways of if I'm around a church, what else is around that church?
If you walk past a church, think about all the stuff that's around it, around a church around your neighborhood. And then when I remember those things was around our church, then it brings me back to reality. That's what they taught me.
Casper: Do you feel like those sorts of grounding techniques have helped you?
Sirbrian: Sometimes, it depends on if I have too much on my plate.
If I'm showed transphobic abuse or homophobic abuse at the time, and I'm being triggered at the same time, they know it's not going to work because it's too much on my plate. Once Devon takes over, I don't know what happens after that. So I can't speak for Devon.
Casper: So right now you were looking for a therapist sorta for the long haul. Is there a specific need that you would like to discuss with a therapist, or do you have any asks for folks listening who might be familiar with personality disorder and could maybe provide a resource for you?
Sirbrian: That's real good.
Okay. I graduated from a program but it wasn't long. It was only like what, five months. That's not enough time for me. This is not a game. Like you can't just do that and leave me out there to try, especially when I have a routine.
I used to have a therapist. She'd call me every morning to see where my mind is and depends on who has the body. They would ground the person. Devon has the body, they would say something to Devon because they know Devon pretty well. I don't know what they say to Devon, I can't really speak for Devon, but whatever they say to Devon, it brings Devon comfortable enough to feel like I'm safe to give me back the body.
So that's what happens. So I'm looking for a therapist who's willing to work with me full time, but it seems like everybody's turning me down because I have Medicaid and they said that everybody that I'm going to they're trying to say like you are full time project so, you can't afford our services. They felt like they were in danger for me to be there. They said, I'm sorry, we can't have you here because we just get to know you. And this is like a mental health and drug treatment. And then we don't have time to like, be focused on hoping that somebody doesn't say the wrong thing. That's what gets to me, I feel like I'm being painted into a corner. That everybody's saying the same thing to me. And I'm looking for a group where everybody has what I have.
So then it won't be like, have I switched over? No one will be afraid because they understand what Personality Disorder is. And I can't help what Devon does. People don't understand that I can't speak for Devon, people don't understand it. And I switch back and forth, I altered back and forth at the program. They was like, look, this is too much. And then one therapist got afraid of me and told everybody else , and then that made me feel like I was in the corner. Actually right now to this day, I just graduated.
And guess what? I have no therapist. I have no therapy because I can't find, no therapist who willing to take me on full time, who does Personality Disorder. So I'm trying to send my book out here to get people understand what Personality Disorder is. It's not my fault. And I feel like giving up because it's like, all I got is my book.
Casper: And it's really devastating because anybody who knows you can see how hard you try and you've made so much progress. And to be turned down by therapists and turned away. It's just awful for all of us to see that happen to you. I think you even tried calling the White House to see if somebody could find you a therapist. What happened with that?
Sirbrian: Knowing that I'm in a situation where no therapy wants to help me. Nobody wants to take my case on, because they said that, you don't have the money or we don't have this, or we don't have that. I said, okay you know how much I take it to the president, then I'm gonna try to take it to the president.
I called the White House. I said, I have a book. It's about Personality Disorder and I wrote a book about it and how it's developed as a child.
I want the whole world to understand what Personality Disorder and people stopped saying I have a Dissociative Identity D isorder. I'm talking to you, right? Casper. So how do I have a Dissociative Identity Disorder? That has nothing to do with Personality Disorder, that's how I feel.
So I told the White House that. I didn't know if they was afraid of me. Maybe I didn't have nobody to represent me. She made me feel like they was going to come and get me or something.
I said maybe I should hang up.
CHILDHOOD
Casper: So to help folks start to understand a little bit more about how personality disorders develop, would you be willing to talk about your childhood and your relationship with your mother?
Sirbrian: Yeah. Okay. My mom was a famous pastor.
When I was five, I was openly a gay child. I tried to hide it. I couldn't, it was just too deep. It was just too into my blood. It's nothing I can do about it. What inspired me the most, my mom didn't even know, was her put her makeup on in the morning time, made me feel like I can be more beautiful than my mom by putting crayon on my face.
That's what I wrote in my first book, I used to put crayon on my face to try to be as beautiful as my mom. My mom, who was a famous pastor at the time, she first, she thought it was a phase, but then the day came, when she came into the bathroom and she saw me in her clothes, her dirty clothes from the hamper. And I had crayons all over my face and I was talking to my toy, action man, I had it sitting on the sink and I was talking back to him.
And then I started dancing. It was like my make-believe world in the bathroom. It took me to that place where, like I told you, where being gay was normal. So I'm dancing with Prince. And she was standing there for a long time.
I didn't even know that. I was so into my world that I didn't know my mom was even standing here. So when I came back into reality then I looked over and saw my mom and my mom lifted me up and took me to the tub, held me up with my shirt. Cause I was bony and skinny.
I didn't really weigh that much. And she turned the hot water on and she plugged it with a rag and she tried to baptize me in there. She tried to baptize me in hot water and I was splashing and it was hot. And then it was like, she was holding me there and she had the Bible open up to some scripture to tell me, this is why I'm doing this.
"I love you. I love you. I'm just doing this because I'm trying to do God's work. And God's not going to take my blessings away from me because I'm doing God's work. I'm just trying to stop abomination our family, so our blessings can be heard." So I kind of believed her in the beginning.
I was like, okay. But then it got worse. It got more worse because people in the neighborhood was making fun of her, "You call yourself a pastor. How are we going to listen to you?" And I still remember how clear my neighbors used to make fun of me and make fun of her. And then it got worse.
It was like she kind of left the Bible, the descriptions in the Bible. And for some reason, she kind of had this other book. I was never able to go inside the book, but she used to read stuff out of the book and she would do things that was in the book to me. Like tie me down, put needles in my body, burn me with hot forks on my body to hope it can break the curse of me being gay. And then it just got worse and worse. Then the day came where I had a nightmare. That's how I met Devon. I had this nightmare that was so bad. I thought I was dying. I felt like I was really was gonna die that day. Find out I was wrapped up in the sheet and I thought my mom was strangling me.
And then and come to find out I got into the strangulation and start strangling myself. I didn't understand why, what I was doing. Then I heard Devon.
And then Devon was like, "Do you hear me?"
I was like, " Yeah, I hear you. Where you at? I can't see, where are you?"
"No, I'm inside you. Listen. You're choking yourself." How is this possible?"
He said, "No, the pain of you being abused created me to help protect the body. And what you're doing is not protecting the body. You're strangling yourself." For some reason, he got me out of it. He grew to the body and grew to the body and grew to the body and grew to the body. And then the day came where he started protecting me from my mom. I wouldn't say protecting, I could fight my mom off to keep me alive. That day that he put glass in my skin. Why did he do that for, I didn't understand, my mom was coming into the room with something, I forgot if it was a shovel. I can't remember that far back. But glass was put in my body and he jumped on top of her and start wiggling all over her and cutting her all up. For some reason the fact that she was being cut up, numbed the pain of the glass being deeper into our skin.
Sirbrian: Yeah. Okay. My mom was a famous pastor.
When I was five, I was openly a gay child. I tried to hide it. I couldn't, it was just too deep. It was just too into my blood. It's nothing I can do about it. What inspired me the most, my mom didn't even know, was her put her makeup on in the morning time, made me feel like I can be more beautiful than my mom by putting crayon on my face.
That's what I wrote in my first book, I used to put crayon on my face to try to be as beautiful as my mom. My mom, who was a famous pastor at the time, she first, she thought it was a phase, but then the day came, when she came into the bathroom and she saw me in her clothes, her dirty clothes from the hamper. And I had crayons all over my face and I was talking to my toy, action man, I had it sitting on the sink and I was talking back to him.
And then I started dancing. It was like my make-believe world in the bathroom. It took me to that place where, like I told you, where being gay was normal. So I'm dancing with Prince. And she was standing there for a long time.
I didn't even know that. I was so into my world that I didn't know my mom was even standing here. So when I came back into reality then I looked over and saw my mom and my mom lifted me up and took me to the tub, held me up with my shirt. Cause I was bony and skinny.
I didn't really weigh that much. And she turned the hot water on and she plugged it with a rag and she tried to baptize me in there. She tried to baptize me in hot water and I was splashing and it was hot. And then it was like, she was holding me there and she had the Bible open up to some scripture to tell me, this is why I'm doing this.
"I love you. I love you. I'm just doing this because I'm trying to do God's work. And God's not going to take my blessings away from me because I'm doing God's work. I'm just trying to stop abomination our family, so our blessings can be heard." So I kind of believed her in the beginning.
I was like, okay. But then it got worse. It got more worse because people in the neighborhood was making fun of her, "You call yourself a pastor. How are we going to listen to you?" And I still remember how clear my neighbors used to make fun of me and make fun of her. And then it got worse.
It was like she kind of left the Bible, the descriptions in the Bible. And for some reason, she kind of had this other book. I was never able to go inside the book, but she used to read stuff out of the book and she would do things that was in the book to me. Like tie me down, put needles in my body, burn me with hot forks on my body to hope it can break the curse of me being gay. And then it just got worse and worse. Then the day came where I had a nightmare. That's how I met Devon. I had this nightmare that was so bad. I thought I was dying. I felt like I was really was gonna die that day. Find out I was wrapped up in the sheet and I thought my mom was strangling me.
And then and come to find out I got into the strangulation and start strangling myself. I didn't understand why, what I was doing. Then I heard Devon.
And then Devon was like, "Do you hear me?"
I was like, " Yeah, I hear you. Where you at? I can't see, where are you?"
"No, I'm inside you. Listen. You're choking yourself." How is this possible?"
He said, "No, the pain of you being abused created me to help protect the body. And what you're doing is not protecting the body. You're strangling yourself." For some reason, he got me out of it. He grew to the body and grew to the body and grew to the body and grew to the body. And then the day came where he started protecting me from my mom. I wouldn't say protecting, I could fight my mom off to keep me alive. That day that he put glass in my skin. Why did he do that for, I didn't understand, my mom was coming into the room with something, I forgot if it was a shovel. I can't remember that far back. But glass was put in my body and he jumped on top of her and start wiggling all over her and cutting her all up. For some reason the fact that she was being cut up, numbed the pain of the glass being deeper into our skin.
ALTER-EGO
Casper: So Devon would take over while you were experiencing abuse from your mother. And he would fight her and try and protect your body from being hurt by her. But he would also use the body in ways that I guess would physically hurt you in order to be able to fight back? And you weren't able to feel that sort of physical pain while Devon was in control?
Sirbrian: But later on, I did. For some reason, I don't know why I didn't feel it, but I did later on, I don't understand what happened, but I did later. So then it got worse and worse. I have a brother named Chris and he knew I was gay and the day came where he came to me and he said that he knew everybody in the neighborhood and knew I was gay.
And I felt that he would hate me for the rest of his life, because it was like, he used to protect me from people in the neighborhood, I never understood that but then the day came where we had a moment. He said, "Look, if you're going to be my sister we should give you a name."
And I said, "Really, you really going to accept me as your sister?"
He said, "Yeah."
I said, What's the name going to be?"
He said, "It's going to be Donna." The person I was at heart, took that name, I guess.
Casper: And Donna is still a part of you. Do you want to explain that a little bit?
Sirbrian: Yeah. That's a alter ego too, but that's a different type of alter ego. Because when I go to my imaginary place, I'm Princess Donna and Prince is a prince and his name is Prince. He treated me like a princess. And it was weird because it was a different type of love.
It was like like he would call me she and her and madame and stuff that made me feel special. I remember this one time he lifted me up in the air. He ran with me. He really treated me like a princess, but I knew I couldn't stay too long because I was only there for that moment. See when Devon came along, I couldn't be Princess Donna for a long time. Because he was only there for that moment. And then I was right back to having my life and he was gone.
But then the time came when Devon and my mom had a real, real bad fight. To the death. And I can feel a little bit of a pain and I can hear a little bit what was going on but it's like a mumble sound. Cause I don't have enough control of the body to hear everything and see everything. I could hear a little bit. And I know that I can feel myself throwing pans and pots and knives. I can feel it because it's part of me.
Whatever happen, I just know that I saw my mom get arrested. That's all I know. She was sent off somewhere and then I went to a boys home.
Sirbrian: But later on, I did. For some reason, I don't know why I didn't feel it, but I did later on, I don't understand what happened, but I did later. So then it got worse and worse. I have a brother named Chris and he knew I was gay and the day came where he came to me and he said that he knew everybody in the neighborhood and knew I was gay.
And I felt that he would hate me for the rest of his life, because it was like, he used to protect me from people in the neighborhood, I never understood that but then the day came where we had a moment. He said, "Look, if you're going to be my sister we should give you a name."
And I said, "Really, you really going to accept me as your sister?"
He said, "Yeah."
I said, What's the name going to be?"
He said, "It's going to be Donna." The person I was at heart, took that name, I guess.
Casper: And Donna is still a part of you. Do you want to explain that a little bit?
Sirbrian: Yeah. That's a alter ego too, but that's a different type of alter ego. Because when I go to my imaginary place, I'm Princess Donna and Prince is a prince and his name is Prince. He treated me like a princess. And it was weird because it was a different type of love.
It was like like he would call me she and her and madame and stuff that made me feel special. I remember this one time he lifted me up in the air. He ran with me. He really treated me like a princess, but I knew I couldn't stay too long because I was only there for that moment. See when Devon came along, I couldn't be Princess Donna for a long time. Because he was only there for that moment. And then I was right back to having my life and he was gone.
But then the time came when Devon and my mom had a real, real bad fight. To the death. And I can feel a little bit of a pain and I can hear a little bit what was going on but it's like a mumble sound. Cause I don't have enough control of the body to hear everything and see everything. I could hear a little bit. And I know that I can feel myself throwing pans and pots and knives. I can feel it because it's part of me.
Whatever happen, I just know that I saw my mom get arrested. That's all I know. She was sent off somewhere and then I went to a boys home.
BOY'S HOME
Casper: Did you and your brother, Chris, go to the same boy's home when your mother was arrested?
Sirbrian: Yeah. St. Joseph's House for Boys.
Casper: Do you know what happened to your mother after you went to St. Joseph's?
Sirbrian: She went to a mental institution. I don't know where. Then I found out through one of my staff members that my mom has schizophrenia. I didn't know what that meant at the time, but now I know what it is. My mom has schizophrenia. I didn't know what happened. I just didn't see her for years. And I was put in a boys' home and the rest is in the book.
Casper: You go into a lot of detail in the book and I think it's really just such a great resource for folks to help understand childhood abuse and how they can manifest into personality disorders and this cycle with that kind of violence. What were things like for you and for Chris at the boy's home?
Sirbrian: Okay. Chris was very overprotective of me. He was so protective that he made people call me Donna, like " He's Donna, if there's a problem you will have to deal with me," but then come to find out my brother, he had a problem himself.
For some reason, as a child, he murdered a dog at 10 years old. I knew he used to kill cats and like for some reason he seen a cat and a dog as my mom, thinking that he was protecting me from my mom with something like that. It was strange.
I guess he felt like the dog was coming up to the boys home to hurt me. He killed the dog and they took him and put him in to a mental institution. And I didn't see him for years, but being in a boys home was not easy because I was still me.
I try to break this curse my mom was talking about, but I just couldn't. It just got worse. No, not worse. I shouldn't say it like that. I just got more deeper into being gay. I even had a rainbow afro. I used to put Kool-Aid in my hair. That's back in the day when people used to put Kool-Aid in their hair, people don't do that these days. I had every flavor in my head to make it this big afro.
In the back of the house, it was a wooden area. And for some reason I made that wooden area into my like imaginary world, nobody went back there. Once I was back there, it was like, it was okay. I couldn't stay back there a long time but it was okay. Boys used to tell me, "Yo you know you'd be dancing around by yourself?"
I wasn't dancing. Then I was like, "oh, Donna was dancing. You were saying Princess Donna." They didn't understand what was going on. So then that happened, but then it come to find out I don't want to say too much because it's all in the second book, but in the second book I talk about where my mom went away.
I had a step-mom, she accepted me being gay because it was a story in a Bible that made her feel like you're born to be gay. And that story was David and Jonathan. For some reason, my step-mom, her name was Lisa, she looked in between the words and figured out, You know what? That was like a love they had, they were actually boyfriends." So she gave me the nickname, Jonathan. I took on the word, Jonathan. I was like, oh man, I'm Jonathan, this, that, and the third. I kinda had a, how can I say this? I kinda had a crush on somebody in the new boys home.
Eric was flamboyant, but he wasn't as flamboyant as me. But for some reason, Devon fell in love with Eric. Eric knew the story about David and Jonathan, and it was amazing for both of them.
And they wanted to live out the story of David and Jonathan in reality. And he called himself, Jonathan, Eric, and Devon called himself David. And they kind of lived this world while they was in the boys' home.
And they fell in love with each other. And no matter what anybody else say, it didn't matter because it's in the Bible that God does love us so it was like, we didn't care. They went back in the woods , I can remember hearing the grass. I know they went back there and use the woods how I used to use the woods.
I used to have that imaginary world with Prince. I knew it was in the woods because they sat on the same rock as me and Prince did and spent time with each other. And I don't know if you know about David and Jonathan, that's what they did. They hid in the woods and they had that secret love. But it was hard.
Sirbrian: Yeah. St. Joseph's House for Boys.
Casper: Do you know what happened to your mother after you went to St. Joseph's?
Sirbrian: She went to a mental institution. I don't know where. Then I found out through one of my staff members that my mom has schizophrenia. I didn't know what that meant at the time, but now I know what it is. My mom has schizophrenia. I didn't know what happened. I just didn't see her for years. And I was put in a boys' home and the rest is in the book.
Casper: You go into a lot of detail in the book and I think it's really just such a great resource for folks to help understand childhood abuse and how they can manifest into personality disorders and this cycle with that kind of violence. What were things like for you and for Chris at the boy's home?
Sirbrian: Okay. Chris was very overprotective of me. He was so protective that he made people call me Donna, like " He's Donna, if there's a problem you will have to deal with me," but then come to find out my brother, he had a problem himself.
For some reason, as a child, he murdered a dog at 10 years old. I knew he used to kill cats and like for some reason he seen a cat and a dog as my mom, thinking that he was protecting me from my mom with something like that. It was strange.
I guess he felt like the dog was coming up to the boys home to hurt me. He killed the dog and they took him and put him in to a mental institution. And I didn't see him for years, but being in a boys home was not easy because I was still me.
I try to break this curse my mom was talking about, but I just couldn't. It just got worse. No, not worse. I shouldn't say it like that. I just got more deeper into being gay. I even had a rainbow afro. I used to put Kool-Aid in my hair. That's back in the day when people used to put Kool-Aid in their hair, people don't do that these days. I had every flavor in my head to make it this big afro.
In the back of the house, it was a wooden area. And for some reason I made that wooden area into my like imaginary world, nobody went back there. Once I was back there, it was like, it was okay. I couldn't stay back there a long time but it was okay. Boys used to tell me, "Yo you know you'd be dancing around by yourself?"
I wasn't dancing. Then I was like, "oh, Donna was dancing. You were saying Princess Donna." They didn't understand what was going on. So then that happened, but then it come to find out I don't want to say too much because it's all in the second book, but in the second book I talk about where my mom went away.
I had a step-mom, she accepted me being gay because it was a story in a Bible that made her feel like you're born to be gay. And that story was David and Jonathan. For some reason, my step-mom, her name was Lisa, she looked in between the words and figured out, You know what? That was like a love they had, they were actually boyfriends." So she gave me the nickname, Jonathan. I took on the word, Jonathan. I was like, oh man, I'm Jonathan, this, that, and the third. I kinda had a, how can I say this? I kinda had a crush on somebody in the new boys home.
Eric was flamboyant, but he wasn't as flamboyant as me. But for some reason, Devon fell in love with Eric. Eric knew the story about David and Jonathan, and it was amazing for both of them.
And they wanted to live out the story of David and Jonathan in reality. And he called himself, Jonathan, Eric, and Devon called himself David. And they kind of lived this world while they was in the boys' home.
And they fell in love with each other. And no matter what anybody else say, it didn't matter because it's in the Bible that God does love us so it was like, we didn't care. They went back in the woods , I can remember hearing the grass. I know they went back there and use the woods how I used to use the woods.
I used to have that imaginary world with Prince. I knew it was in the woods because they sat on the same rock as me and Prince did and spent time with each other. And I don't know if you know about David and Jonathan, that's what they did. They hid in the woods and they had that secret love. But it was hard.
PRISON
Casper: Thank you so much for helping me understand and for helping other people understand your experience and your reality. I know talking about everything that happened when you were a kid, it can't be easy. And to have you relive that multiple times now in the couple of conversations that we have had I'm just really grateful for you being willing to share that with me. Could you talk a little bit about what happened after the boy's home and what happened up until you were incarcerated?
Sirbrian: In time, I wound up getting the body back. I didn't have the body for a long time. And in the second book, you will find that out. I didn't have the body for a long time. Devon for some reason, he gave me the body. But it was hard for me to find love because number one, people was afraid.
Devon had my body, most of the time. So it was like he was the homo thug. I lived in a hood environment and Devon is into flamboyant guys, not too flamboyant. Not like trans women. No, but he told me what a homo thug is.
Okay. I understand what that means. Homo thug is, it's not what people think it is. It's not a person that's on the down low that lived the street life selling drugs. No, that's not what a homo thug is. That's a person that is on the down low.
Anybody could be on the down low, a rich person, a famous person, a poor person, a white person, black person. Everybody, when they think of homo thug, they assume that it's a person of black or Hispanic. No. Anybody can be a homo thug. Homo thug is a person who they feel like they're number one.
They like the watchdog of the LGBT nation. And that's what Devon is. That's number one, he actually has a team of homo thugs.
And it sad to say when the homophobic disrespects somebody in the LGBT nation, the cops is not going to take it serious. You call, "Oh my God. Somebody is gay bashing me."
"Look, we got worse things to be thinking about."
So things are changing because I'm actually from Philly. In Philly, people don't say the word faggot anymore. People don't say the word homo no more. They say homo thug. And the whole reason why is people are afraid to say faggot because if I call him a faggot, it's a chance that he might know a homo thug.
Now I can't tell you all the things that a homo thug would do, okay. I can't tell you that because that's maybe incriminating, so I can't say that much, but that's more Devon. Okay. I can't speak for Devon. I only know what Devon writes in our journal.
That's how we communicate. He just paves the way for a gay person to walk down, safe to be themself. You understand what I'm saying?
So it was hard for me to find somebody, number one, because the alter ego having the body, then I switch over and then I'm with a flamboyant guy and I'm like, whoa. I'm not trying to bump purses I'm not trying to bump purses with you. So that's what made it hard for me to find somebody because of that.
Casper: Do you want to talk a little bit about what it was like when you first went to prison?
Sirbrian: Oh, that was not good. Let me tell you something, boy, first going in being gay, people have no idea how dangerous it is.
You have guards who have kids who are gay. So then they take it out on you and they come in and say, "It's people like you is why my son is gay." They would put you in a room with a homophobic. They eat your food, you barely eat. They take all your clothes and then sometimes the Sergeant finds out, sometimes the Sergeant doesn't find out , but when Sergeant does find out then she wound up taking me and putting me into a better room, a better situation.
If you're flamboyant, it's hard to hide your flamboyancy. If you try to hide it, all it's going do is tear you apart. So I didn't let it tear me apart. I was flamboyant.
But here's the thing. By being in a room with a homophobic, that was a really big mistake because what happened? I got triggered, didn't I? And what happened? I broke five of his fingers, but he didn't tell. Cause you don't want to tell, you don't want to face Devon. It was like, what if you tell on Devon, then you happen to be in the hole with Devon.
For some reason, Devon got a kick out of it. For some reason, Devon was like, "You see, I did that shit. I did that. Yeah. Now, you know what? I'm going to run some shit around here." And then the word got around.
Devon told me what's going on. So I did the homo thug thing too. We both did it together. He was like, look, when you get the body, straighten your back out. Get your hand off your hip, stroll and sag your pants. Walk that walk, talk that talk. And for some reason, from a distance I got this attention. So Rico didn't know who he was really dating. He knew I had Personality Disorder. So he didn't know who he was dating. Was he dating me? So that was one of the problems.
I met him out in the yard and I told him about myself. And it was mostly Devon. So at that time, for some reason, I could hear Devon in my head. That was weird.
I could actually hear Devon telling me, "Yo, say this, say that, shut up, put your back up swagger, pants sagging. That's what I was doing. I said, look, I'm a homo thug. This is what I do. I'm a Rockefeller of the LGBT nation. And you are definitely my type.
Cause you a femme boy, and you can graduate to be a wifey boy. That right there made him feel safe. My job, I'll do whatever it takes to make you safe. Even if I have to go to the hole, for some reason that made me even feel good. For some reason I start getting a little swagger, I start getting a little swagger and that right there, it was like, all these people that was on the down low, they start coming out of the closet.
"Yeah. I'm a homo thug just like B-Rock." That's what they call me. "That's B-Rock. That's right. If you got a problem, you gotta deal with me and B-Rock." The next person, "You got to deal with me, Devon, Chris, Andre, Jesús, Tyreek, all of us." Then it got bigger and bigger.
Then all of a sudden I got a letter A.B.O. Comix. Now I already made a comic strip anyway, it wasn't a book. It was like a little paper. If you saw the newspaper back in the day where it was like one of those strips and I used to cut them all out and I used to put them under everybody's door to see who was the homo thugs and who's not. But who was a homo thug and they found out, "Yo, I read it. Yeah. I'm a homo thug too." Then it got more and more.
And for some reason, it's the swagger. I owned his top lip. He owned my bottom lip. This is going to be that way, how it is, then it was like the flamboyant guys that were there on the down low, they was coming out. They was tailoring their outfits, tight pants.
And they were fixing it all up, cause they feel like they was safe. It was like, "What you just say to me, what did you say to me? I will tell Tyrone."
Then it was like the Homo Thug's Swagger. "Yo, when the next book coming out? Yo you know what? You should join with A.B.O. Comix." So what did I do?
I said, you know what, a'ight. I never thought that A.B.O. Comix would have called me back. And that's how I met Casper.
Sirbrian: In time, I wound up getting the body back. I didn't have the body for a long time. And in the second book, you will find that out. I didn't have the body for a long time. Devon for some reason, he gave me the body. But it was hard for me to find love because number one, people was afraid.
Devon had my body, most of the time. So it was like he was the homo thug. I lived in a hood environment and Devon is into flamboyant guys, not too flamboyant. Not like trans women. No, but he told me what a homo thug is.
Okay. I understand what that means. Homo thug is, it's not what people think it is. It's not a person that's on the down low that lived the street life selling drugs. No, that's not what a homo thug is. That's a person that is on the down low.
Anybody could be on the down low, a rich person, a famous person, a poor person, a white person, black person. Everybody, when they think of homo thug, they assume that it's a person of black or Hispanic. No. Anybody can be a homo thug. Homo thug is a person who they feel like they're number one.
They like the watchdog of the LGBT nation. And that's what Devon is. That's number one, he actually has a team of homo thugs.
And it sad to say when the homophobic disrespects somebody in the LGBT nation, the cops is not going to take it serious. You call, "Oh my God. Somebody is gay bashing me."
"Look, we got worse things to be thinking about."
So things are changing because I'm actually from Philly. In Philly, people don't say the word faggot anymore. People don't say the word homo no more. They say homo thug. And the whole reason why is people are afraid to say faggot because if I call him a faggot, it's a chance that he might know a homo thug.
Now I can't tell you all the things that a homo thug would do, okay. I can't tell you that because that's maybe incriminating, so I can't say that much, but that's more Devon. Okay. I can't speak for Devon. I only know what Devon writes in our journal.
That's how we communicate. He just paves the way for a gay person to walk down, safe to be themself. You understand what I'm saying?
So it was hard for me to find somebody, number one, because the alter ego having the body, then I switch over and then I'm with a flamboyant guy and I'm like, whoa. I'm not trying to bump purses I'm not trying to bump purses with you. So that's what made it hard for me to find somebody because of that.
Casper: Do you want to talk a little bit about what it was like when you first went to prison?
Sirbrian: Oh, that was not good. Let me tell you something, boy, first going in being gay, people have no idea how dangerous it is.
You have guards who have kids who are gay. So then they take it out on you and they come in and say, "It's people like you is why my son is gay." They would put you in a room with a homophobic. They eat your food, you barely eat. They take all your clothes and then sometimes the Sergeant finds out, sometimes the Sergeant doesn't find out , but when Sergeant does find out then she wound up taking me and putting me into a better room, a better situation.
If you're flamboyant, it's hard to hide your flamboyancy. If you try to hide it, all it's going do is tear you apart. So I didn't let it tear me apart. I was flamboyant.
But here's the thing. By being in a room with a homophobic, that was a really big mistake because what happened? I got triggered, didn't I? And what happened? I broke five of his fingers, but he didn't tell. Cause you don't want to tell, you don't want to face Devon. It was like, what if you tell on Devon, then you happen to be in the hole with Devon.
For some reason, Devon got a kick out of it. For some reason, Devon was like, "You see, I did that shit. I did that. Yeah. Now, you know what? I'm going to run some shit around here." And then the word got around.
Devon told me what's going on. So I did the homo thug thing too. We both did it together. He was like, look, when you get the body, straighten your back out. Get your hand off your hip, stroll and sag your pants. Walk that walk, talk that talk. And for some reason, from a distance I got this attention. So Rico didn't know who he was really dating. He knew I had Personality Disorder. So he didn't know who he was dating. Was he dating me? So that was one of the problems.
I met him out in the yard and I told him about myself. And it was mostly Devon. So at that time, for some reason, I could hear Devon in my head. That was weird.
I could actually hear Devon telling me, "Yo, say this, say that, shut up, put your back up swagger, pants sagging. That's what I was doing. I said, look, I'm a homo thug. This is what I do. I'm a Rockefeller of the LGBT nation. And you are definitely my type.
Cause you a femme boy, and you can graduate to be a wifey boy. That right there made him feel safe. My job, I'll do whatever it takes to make you safe. Even if I have to go to the hole, for some reason that made me even feel good. For some reason I start getting a little swagger, I start getting a little swagger and that right there, it was like, all these people that was on the down low, they start coming out of the closet.
"Yeah. I'm a homo thug just like B-Rock." That's what they call me. "That's B-Rock. That's right. If you got a problem, you gotta deal with me and B-Rock." The next person, "You got to deal with me, Devon, Chris, Andre, Jesús, Tyreek, all of us." Then it got bigger and bigger.
Then all of a sudden I got a letter A.B.O. Comix. Now I already made a comic strip anyway, it wasn't a book. It was like a little paper. If you saw the newspaper back in the day where it was like one of those strips and I used to cut them all out and I used to put them under everybody's door to see who was the homo thugs and who's not. But who was a homo thug and they found out, "Yo, I read it. Yeah. I'm a homo thug too." Then it got more and more.
And for some reason, it's the swagger. I owned his top lip. He owned my bottom lip. This is going to be that way, how it is, then it was like the flamboyant guys that were there on the down low, they was coming out. They was tailoring their outfits, tight pants.
And they were fixing it all up, cause they feel like they was safe. It was like, "What you just say to me, what did you say to me? I will tell Tyrone."
Then it was like the Homo Thug's Swagger. "Yo, when the next book coming out? Yo you know what? You should join with A.B.O. Comix." So what did I do?
I said, you know what, a'ight. I never thought that A.B.O. Comix would have called me back. And that's how I met Casper.
THE BOY OF HEARTS
Casper: Yeah, that was back all the way in 2017 when we were babies. I think when you first made that comic and look at us now. *laugh*
Sirbrian: And now all I want to do is just get my story out there. People out there, this is what people need to know: when you keep on saying the word faggot and if you don't stand up for people that are gay, you're still homophobic.
If you stand back and say, "I didn't say it, he said it, my friend said it," you're still homophobic yourself. My goal is to tell people, when you keep on showing transphobic or homophobic abuse, this is what you're going to get, and you don't want to meet Devon. No one wants to be a homo thug like Devon.
I wish I was a homo thug straight-laced all the way, but I can't, right, because I can't be Devon, but I'll tell you this. This is what happens. And I think about it, I'm gonna have this the rest of my life. The doctor said, I said, "Can it ever be cured?"
"No, because it was during a time when your brain was developing, I'm sorry. You will always have Personality Disorder." So I'm trying to get my book all across the world, even to straight people, straight and gay people. So I can end what I call Gay Personality Disorder cause that's what I feel like I have, Gay Personality Disorder, and we could end this. And I want to get my books to those who have this type of Personality Disorder and scared to come forward.
I hope it gets to them and say, "You know what? This book inspired me to come." But I need your help.
Casper: Well, I'm extremely proud of you for writing down your story and sharing it with the world. I'm so looking forward to being able to get it out there. And I really hope that this helps.
Sirbrian: And now all I want to do is just get my story out there. People out there, this is what people need to know: when you keep on saying the word faggot and if you don't stand up for people that are gay, you're still homophobic.
If you stand back and say, "I didn't say it, he said it, my friend said it," you're still homophobic yourself. My goal is to tell people, when you keep on showing transphobic or homophobic abuse, this is what you're going to get, and you don't want to meet Devon. No one wants to be a homo thug like Devon.
I wish I was a homo thug straight-laced all the way, but I can't, right, because I can't be Devon, but I'll tell you this. This is what happens. And I think about it, I'm gonna have this the rest of my life. The doctor said, I said, "Can it ever be cured?"
"No, because it was during a time when your brain was developing, I'm sorry. You will always have Personality Disorder." So I'm trying to get my book all across the world, even to straight people, straight and gay people. So I can end what I call Gay Personality Disorder cause that's what I feel like I have, Gay Personality Disorder, and we could end this. And I want to get my books to those who have this type of Personality Disorder and scared to come forward.
I hope it gets to them and say, "You know what? This book inspired me to come." But I need your help.
Casper: Well, I'm extremely proud of you for writing down your story and sharing it with the world. I'm so looking forward to being able to get it out there. And I really hope that this helps.
*BREAK*
Conductor Trig: Teleway currently delayed for maintenance.
Conductor Caroline: The Boy of Hearts by Sirbrian Spease is a deeply touching autobiography detailing the experience of a young child navigating homophobia, poverty, abuse and PTSD. You'll meet a young Sirbrian, his childhood love Prince, his protective older brother Chris, and his dark alter-ego Devon in this gripping story of a child whose imagination was his greatest defense against the adversities of an abusive home and the foster care system.
Our readers rave: "The sheer bravery of sharing this story is inspiring", "There is nothing to hate about this book: it helps people see life through the eyes of a transgender person and be compassionate towards them.", "This book will open the minds of those discovering their sexuality so they know they are not alone."
Get your copy today at abocomix.com. That's a b o c o m i x dot com.
Conductor Trig: Please report all lost or stolen items to Teleway conductors.
Conductor Caroline: The Boy of Hearts by Sirbrian Spease is a deeply touching autobiography detailing the experience of a young child navigating homophobia, poverty, abuse and PTSD. You'll meet a young Sirbrian, his childhood love Prince, his protective older brother Chris, and his dark alter-ego Devon in this gripping story of a child whose imagination was his greatest defense against the adversities of an abusive home and the foster care system.
Our readers rave: "The sheer bravery of sharing this story is inspiring", "There is nothing to hate about this book: it helps people see life through the eyes of a transgender person and be compassionate towards them.", "This book will open the minds of those discovering their sexuality so they know they are not alone."
Get your copy today at abocomix.com. That's a b o c o m i x dot com.
Conductor Trig: Please report all lost or stolen items to Teleway conductors.
TRIGGERING DEVON
Casper: I would love to speak with Devon as well, if that's okay. Could you tell me a little bit about the process of bringing Devon out?
Sirbrian: Okay. The first thing I want to say to people who are watching, please. If you ever see me on the street, you might see me on the street, please don't be afraid of me. All I'm doing is triggering myself. I just want y'all to know that, please don't ever be afraid of me. This is the things I have to do. This is how it works. So just pay attention. Don't be afraid. But this is how it works.
Crosses, crosses, churches, abomination, crosses, crosses. Crosses, crosses, faggot, faggot, you a faggot, crosses. This is called crosses. The iron is hot, and it's going to break the curse of you being gay, no matter what you say, that's how it was going to be and nothing you can do, it's nothing you could do because he's cornered him, there's nothing you could do about it, you're cornered. That's it. Homophobia got you cornered, homophobia got you cornered, it's cornered you, that's it, it's over, it's cornered, you're cornered, there's nothing you can do about it, you're cornered. You're cornered, it's over. There's nothing you could do about it. The boss.
Devon: All right. Okay. How you doing? Wait, hold on a second. I got it.
Okay. Okay. Casper. Yeah. So yeah, he told me, wait. It says it right here. It says open-minded okay. Casper. We know Casper. It's just us. Okay. All right.
Sirbrian: Okay. The first thing I want to say to people who are watching, please. If you ever see me on the street, you might see me on the street, please don't be afraid of me. All I'm doing is triggering myself. I just want y'all to know that, please don't ever be afraid of me. This is the things I have to do. This is how it works. So just pay attention. Don't be afraid. But this is how it works.
Crosses, crosses, churches, abomination, crosses, crosses. Crosses, crosses, faggot, faggot, you a faggot, crosses. This is called crosses. The iron is hot, and it's going to break the curse of you being gay, no matter what you say, that's how it was going to be and nothing you can do, it's nothing you could do because he's cornered him, there's nothing you could do about it, you're cornered. That's it. Homophobia got you cornered, homophobia got you cornered, it's cornered you, that's it, it's over, it's cornered, you're cornered, there's nothing you can do about it, you're cornered. You're cornered, it's over. There's nothing you could do about it. The boss.
Devon: All right. Okay. How you doing? Wait, hold on a second. I got it.
Okay. Okay. Casper. Yeah. So yeah, he told me, wait. It says it right here. It says open-minded okay. Casper. We know Casper. It's just us. Okay. All right.
PROTECTOR ROLE
Casper: Hi, Devon. Could you introduce yourself for everybody listening?
Devon: Okay. My name is Devon Spease. I am a real person. First I want to say that I was created by the pain of transphobic and homophobic abuse when Sirbrian was a child. I was created, I was born just like a man and a woman come together and make a child. So you got transphobic abuse, you got homophobic abuse. And for some reason, I was just born. I just know that he had a nightmare, some type of nightmare, because his mom, I guess he told you about his mom.
I probably don't have to explain about his mom. Cause you know about his mom. So he had a real bad nightmare and he goes wild in his sheets. And for some reason the sheet got wrapped around his throat some type of way and it was choking him and then all of a sudden he starts choking himself.
I don't understand why, I don't know what that was about. And he felt like it was his mom choking him, but I had to make him realize that it wasn't. But for some reason I got him to realize there was a sheet around his neck. He took his sheet off. He was in reality and I told him how I was born and what I'm there for: to protect him from his mom. And because mom is a pastor, and she was beating him because he was gay and she wouldn't stop, and this is what happened. I got created and I would fight his mom with him. We had other times throwing pots at her and all these other things to do to let her know that it's not going to be as easy as you think it is.
We're not gonna go anywhere without a fight. Then she backed up and said, "Whoa, man. Okay. All right. So I'll give him respect."
But she always came back harder and harder. So that's how that happened. And for a few years, I was doing all I can to protect him. Then I gave the body back to him only when I felt like it was safe.
No matter what he say, I could feel him sometimes trying to take over the body. "No, no.. I'm not giving you the body." You know what I mean? I knew it was not safe enough, but then sometimes I can't give him the body because I be trying to put his mind in a safe place.
But sometimes it just be too deep. For some reason, it seemed like his safe place is only when he was like eight years old or five when he was in love with Prince. But I don't want to take him back that far. I take him back that far, then it's like he's eight years old and sometimes he'd be so happy in that world, so happy he don't want to come back. And then it's like, when I do have the power to bring him back, I can't bring him back as an eight year old kid. No, most kids can't cross the street by themselves.
I don't want him to get hit by a car. Get kidnapped by a stranger. And it's like his body, he's a grown person now, you understand what I'm trying to say, he's a grown person now. So why would I want to give him back the body? And the people would call the cops and the cops would call the mental institution where they'd be like, "How's he five?"
He's in his, what, forties, but he act like he eight, no, he can't be on the street. He didn't understand it. But you understand what I'm saying?
Casper: Yes, absolutely. You have sort of the protector role of the body. How often would you say that you have the body and how often does Sirbrian have it?
Devon: At this time now? I've been having the body for a long time, because it's like the world corner us right now. We can't find a therapist that's willing to take us on full time. So I feel like I have to have the body most of the time. I feel like the world is painting us into a corner. So I feel like I have to have the body most of the time until we find a therapist. Sirbrian, he too sensitive. And I know they want to keep me at bay. I know they don't want me to have the body.
I understand that. I understand. I understand. Because sometimes I might overdo things. Cause I'm overprotective of everything. Like if Sirbrian is with a person or somebody across the street being gay bashed, and he feels it, I feel it, it's over, I got the body.
How he gets triggered, he thinks that the person that's hurting the person is his mom. And then he thinks that the person that's being hurt is him. I don't understand why he thinks that. That's weird how he thinks that.
Casper: What are some of your therapy goals? If you found a full-time therapist, what would you ideally like to have happen?
Devon: I want to sleep. I want to have a slumber. I would like to see him have his body. I know I will always be here because there's so many things that trigger him. I think it's like about 80 of them, but each one, I want to find a therapist who can teach him how to not take the triggers so seriously in a way where it gets emotional, where I can feel it. That makes sense? That's what I want. That's what I want.
Devon: Okay. My name is Devon Spease. I am a real person. First I want to say that I was created by the pain of transphobic and homophobic abuse when Sirbrian was a child. I was created, I was born just like a man and a woman come together and make a child. So you got transphobic abuse, you got homophobic abuse. And for some reason, I was just born. I just know that he had a nightmare, some type of nightmare, because his mom, I guess he told you about his mom.
I probably don't have to explain about his mom. Cause you know about his mom. So he had a real bad nightmare and he goes wild in his sheets. And for some reason the sheet got wrapped around his throat some type of way and it was choking him and then all of a sudden he starts choking himself.
I don't understand why, I don't know what that was about. And he felt like it was his mom choking him, but I had to make him realize that it wasn't. But for some reason I got him to realize there was a sheet around his neck. He took his sheet off. He was in reality and I told him how I was born and what I'm there for: to protect him from his mom. And because mom is a pastor, and she was beating him because he was gay and she wouldn't stop, and this is what happened. I got created and I would fight his mom with him. We had other times throwing pots at her and all these other things to do to let her know that it's not going to be as easy as you think it is.
We're not gonna go anywhere without a fight. Then she backed up and said, "Whoa, man. Okay. All right. So I'll give him respect."
But she always came back harder and harder. So that's how that happened. And for a few years, I was doing all I can to protect him. Then I gave the body back to him only when I felt like it was safe.
No matter what he say, I could feel him sometimes trying to take over the body. "No, no.. I'm not giving you the body." You know what I mean? I knew it was not safe enough, but then sometimes I can't give him the body because I be trying to put his mind in a safe place.
But sometimes it just be too deep. For some reason, it seemed like his safe place is only when he was like eight years old or five when he was in love with Prince. But I don't want to take him back that far. I take him back that far, then it's like he's eight years old and sometimes he'd be so happy in that world, so happy he don't want to come back. And then it's like, when I do have the power to bring him back, I can't bring him back as an eight year old kid. No, most kids can't cross the street by themselves.
I don't want him to get hit by a car. Get kidnapped by a stranger. And it's like his body, he's a grown person now, you understand what I'm trying to say, he's a grown person now. So why would I want to give him back the body? And the people would call the cops and the cops would call the mental institution where they'd be like, "How's he five?"
He's in his, what, forties, but he act like he eight, no, he can't be on the street. He didn't understand it. But you understand what I'm saying?
Casper: Yes, absolutely. You have sort of the protector role of the body. How often would you say that you have the body and how often does Sirbrian have it?
Devon: At this time now? I've been having the body for a long time, because it's like the world corner us right now. We can't find a therapist that's willing to take us on full time. So I feel like I have to have the body most of the time. I feel like the world is painting us into a corner. So I feel like I have to have the body most of the time until we find a therapist. Sirbrian, he too sensitive. And I know they want to keep me at bay. I know they don't want me to have the body.
I understand that. I understand. I understand. Because sometimes I might overdo things. Cause I'm overprotective of everything. Like if Sirbrian is with a person or somebody across the street being gay bashed, and he feels it, I feel it, it's over, I got the body.
How he gets triggered, he thinks that the person that's hurting the person is his mom. And then he thinks that the person that's being hurt is him. I don't understand why he thinks that. That's weird how he thinks that.
Casper: What are some of your therapy goals? If you found a full-time therapist, what would you ideally like to have happen?
Devon: I want to sleep. I want to have a slumber. I would like to see him have his body. I know I will always be here because there's so many things that trigger him. I think it's like about 80 of them, but each one, I want to find a therapist who can teach him how to not take the triggers so seriously in a way where it gets emotional, where I can feel it. That makes sense? That's what I want. That's what I want.
HOMO THUG'S SWAGGER
Casper: I think that that's a really good goal to work towards in therapy. And if somebody is listening and is in contact with a therapist who works with people who have personality disorders, I definitely encourage people to reach out. Devon, when you were in prison you and Sirbrian developed an artistic practice together. You did the Homo Thugs Swagger comic strips. Could you talk a little bit about what it was like collaborating on those with him?
Devon: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You talking about my wifey boy, Rico, my wifey boy, yeah. Yeah. My little wifey boy right there and that was nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I made a comic strip called the Homo Thug's Swagger because I wanted everybody that was on the down low to come out, but come out with swagger, not just be like, I'm a homo thug, no explaining why you a homo thug.
That's what I want to know. A homo thug's swagger. I show my swagger. I'm let everybody know anybody who harms any of the girls, because to me a fem guy is a girl. I can't explain it. You would have to go through the homo thug.
Cause we are the watch dogs of the LGBT community. This to everybody, I'm talking about all the way down from the female studs to the men that are female at heart. I really love Rico, my wifey boy. He really did his job.
He used to wash my drawers in the toilet. I was out there working, busting my butt. Every time I came home, he had food cooked. How he made the food, it was weird, using like chips with noodles. I used to steal food from the kitchen that feeds the guards.
And he used to hook it all up and I don't know how he did it, but he always made it work. And that right there to come home to a woman, made me feel like, Dang, I know it gotta be some lonely women in this prison. I know it gotta be some lonely homo thugs in this prison. You know what, let me try to bring them together.
So I said I'mma make a comic strip. Now it wasn't A.B.O. Comix. No, it was like a little piece of paper. I slide them underneath everybody door. And my wifey boy, Rico, was like, "What are you doing?" I said, "Yo, I want to see where everybody at."
And if they want to come through here and get right, we can get right and get it cooking, pop locking, whatever. And then the day came, when we went to the yard and you had some peoples threw the paper in my face and you had people come in, Yo, my boy, I'm a homo thug too, my boy. We a team bro. Yo, I saw that comic you making. You gonna make more?"
I just want to say that right there inspired other people to want to try to find their wifey boy. So that's what happened. Everybody got together. It was like even the guards were getting afraid. Like I was saying, guards had gay children of they own. And they felt like every gay person is a child molester. So when they look at us, they don't know if what's the truth, what's not the truth.
They don't know what really happened. You see what I'm saying? So they assume that all gays are molesters. That's what they assume, so somebody, they might just take you and put you in the hole for a month just because.
Devon: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You talking about my wifey boy, Rico, my wifey boy, yeah. Yeah. My little wifey boy right there and that was nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I made a comic strip called the Homo Thug's Swagger because I wanted everybody that was on the down low to come out, but come out with swagger, not just be like, I'm a homo thug, no explaining why you a homo thug.
That's what I want to know. A homo thug's swagger. I show my swagger. I'm let everybody know anybody who harms any of the girls, because to me a fem guy is a girl. I can't explain it. You would have to go through the homo thug.
Cause we are the watch dogs of the LGBT community. This to everybody, I'm talking about all the way down from the female studs to the men that are female at heart. I really love Rico, my wifey boy. He really did his job.
He used to wash my drawers in the toilet. I was out there working, busting my butt. Every time I came home, he had food cooked. How he made the food, it was weird, using like chips with noodles. I used to steal food from the kitchen that feeds the guards.
And he used to hook it all up and I don't know how he did it, but he always made it work. And that right there to come home to a woman, made me feel like, Dang, I know it gotta be some lonely women in this prison. I know it gotta be some lonely homo thugs in this prison. You know what, let me try to bring them together.
So I said I'mma make a comic strip. Now it wasn't A.B.O. Comix. No, it was like a little piece of paper. I slide them underneath everybody door. And my wifey boy, Rico, was like, "What are you doing?" I said, "Yo, I want to see where everybody at."
And if they want to come through here and get right, we can get right and get it cooking, pop locking, whatever. And then the day came, when we went to the yard and you had some peoples threw the paper in my face and you had people come in, Yo, my boy, I'm a homo thug too, my boy. We a team bro. Yo, I saw that comic you making. You gonna make more?"
I just want to say that right there inspired other people to want to try to find their wifey boy. So that's what happened. Everybody got together. It was like even the guards were getting afraid. Like I was saying, guards had gay children of they own. And they felt like every gay person is a child molester. So when they look at us, they don't know if what's the truth, what's not the truth.
They don't know what really happened. You see what I'm saying? So they assume that all gays are molesters. That's what they assume, so somebody, they might just take you and put you in the hole for a month just because.
ART COLLABORATION WITH SIRBRIAN
Casper: Is there anything else that you would like to talk about as far as what it's like creating art with Sirbrian or what it was like writing a book with him?
Devon: Yes. First I was scared. I'm never scared of anything. Okay. I'm not an alter ego.
That's number one. I hate when people, but then I got used to the word. I am a person. I was born. I wasn't created, I was born. Two things born me. Two things came together and created me. So I felt wait a minute, you wrote the first book, but you didn't let me talk. It's because of me, why they say you got Personality Disorder. I deserve to be in a second book. Or in this book.
Sirbrian was like, "No, you can't, you gonna embarass us" and stuff like that. And people ain't gonna want to buy the book. "I'm going to say, 'Oh, Sirbrian and an alter ego wrote a book'."
Sirbrian said, "I'm going to ask Casper." So I was like, okay, I don't know what happened between y'all two.
Whatever you said to him, inspired to let him, let me write in the book. So this second book is basically me. I fell in love with this guy named Eric. He was one of the foster boys in the home. He was the girl of course. And I fell in love with him. I was really in love with him.
I grew really in love with him. So in love with him, I forgot that we had Personality Disorder. I forgot all about Sirbrian. I forgot that he was in me.
Then the day came, when he took the body back.
So it was weird because the relationship that I had, I really felt like, cause I never had the body for a long time, I was scared. I was nervous because I don't really know about your world. I was still learning like when he had the body growing up, he was in school, I could only hear mumbles. So I'm trying to understand about life in mumbles. So I don't know much about the body. So having a body full-time was hard for me. I was panicking. I was nervous, anxiety.
Eric was beautiful. He was sexy. Beautiful. So he was out of my league. I didn't know I had what it takes. Like I'm trying to learn about the body and I was scared.
I was like, can you imagine a person with Personality Disorder? I don't got Personality Disorder, he got Personality Disorder. So I'm as a regular person. So I shouldn't say that, that was disrespectful, but me as a person, cause I told you I'm not an alter ego, I'm a person, just having the body full-time was a lot.
And I felt like he was out of my league. He was like a real female. Like what I always wanted, a guy who a girl at heart. That is what I'm looking for. And I found it and I didn't know what to do. And then when I did, he told me something that brung us together.
The story about David and Jonathan, that brought us together. He said something about, can I call him Jonathan? I was like, " I know you're not talking about the story in the Bible. Boy. Ain't nothing going to happen to you. You know what, you graduated. From a fem boy to a wifey boy."
We went through a lot though, that boys home being openly gay holding hands, we went through a lot. We went through a lot, but it was like this story of David and Jonathan, we lived this story.
Casper: I think that's really beautiful because so often we're told that theology, especially Christianity, is against gay people. And I think that that's a narrative that was never in line with my experience with Christianity. Where I was taught to love everybody equally and treat everybody with respect and not judge others because that's not our place to judge other people.
But Sirbrian was talking a little bit about your relationship with Eric and going into the woods and spending time with him on a rock which is kind of like what the characters in that story in the Bible do right?
Devon: Yeah, they did. Cause they were hiding. They were hiding from the world of homophobia. And I never, it's hard for me to smile. Okay. Especially back then where homophobia was like stricter than it was now, I actually was smiling. When people would say, "You faggot," I would be like, " Yes, with a cape, I'm flying. I'm flying. Yes, I am. I am flying with my afro, with my pick in my afro. My nappy afro. Yes, I'm flying."
But we still went through problems that people can never imagine.
I know it may seem weird to people, but that is what held us together. I know I'm not supposed to have a relationship because I'm considered the alter ego, but I felt like I deserved love too. And I found love for the both of us. If people don't understand that, I don't know what else to say. Maybe you have to read the book to understand it. I know I kind of write different. Sirbrian writes kind of different.
Our minds think different because we both think differently. So sometimes one sentence may seem different than the other sentence. That's only because we alternate back and forth.
Casper: I think it's really cool that you both collaborated on this story and you were able to bring your voice into this as well and share your perspective. You're both beautiful writers and it's incredible in giving a perspective that i think some people are just really going to need to hear to know that they're not alone.
Devon: For Sirbrian to let me have the body that long to help write that book, it inspired me as the alter ego to write the third book. Hopefully we can join them together. Just the fact that, me as an alter ego is being heard as a real person. I wanted to ask you, is there any way that I can be put in the book some type of way as a writer?
Casper: Of course. Yes, we will definitely credit you as the author alongside Sirbrian.
Devon: Okay. But do you think that the world would accept me as an alter ego helping write in a book.
Casper: I think it will be a different experience for a lot of readers, but I think it'll be an experience that they will be glad for. And I think it will definitely help people understand all that you had gone through.
Devon: Yes. First I was scared. I'm never scared of anything. Okay. I'm not an alter ego.
That's number one. I hate when people, but then I got used to the word. I am a person. I was born. I wasn't created, I was born. Two things born me. Two things came together and created me. So I felt wait a minute, you wrote the first book, but you didn't let me talk. It's because of me, why they say you got Personality Disorder. I deserve to be in a second book. Or in this book.
Sirbrian was like, "No, you can't, you gonna embarass us" and stuff like that. And people ain't gonna want to buy the book. "I'm going to say, 'Oh, Sirbrian and an alter ego wrote a book'."
Sirbrian said, "I'm going to ask Casper." So I was like, okay, I don't know what happened between y'all two.
Whatever you said to him, inspired to let him, let me write in the book. So this second book is basically me. I fell in love with this guy named Eric. He was one of the foster boys in the home. He was the girl of course. And I fell in love with him. I was really in love with him.
I grew really in love with him. So in love with him, I forgot that we had Personality Disorder. I forgot all about Sirbrian. I forgot that he was in me.
Then the day came, when he took the body back.
So it was weird because the relationship that I had, I really felt like, cause I never had the body for a long time, I was scared. I was nervous because I don't really know about your world. I was still learning like when he had the body growing up, he was in school, I could only hear mumbles. So I'm trying to understand about life in mumbles. So I don't know much about the body. So having a body full-time was hard for me. I was panicking. I was nervous, anxiety.
Eric was beautiful. He was sexy. Beautiful. So he was out of my league. I didn't know I had what it takes. Like I'm trying to learn about the body and I was scared.
I was like, can you imagine a person with Personality Disorder? I don't got Personality Disorder, he got Personality Disorder. So I'm as a regular person. So I shouldn't say that, that was disrespectful, but me as a person, cause I told you I'm not an alter ego, I'm a person, just having the body full-time was a lot.
And I felt like he was out of my league. He was like a real female. Like what I always wanted, a guy who a girl at heart. That is what I'm looking for. And I found it and I didn't know what to do. And then when I did, he told me something that brung us together.
The story about David and Jonathan, that brought us together. He said something about, can I call him Jonathan? I was like, " I know you're not talking about the story in the Bible. Boy. Ain't nothing going to happen to you. You know what, you graduated. From a fem boy to a wifey boy."
We went through a lot though, that boys home being openly gay holding hands, we went through a lot. We went through a lot, but it was like this story of David and Jonathan, we lived this story.
Casper: I think that's really beautiful because so often we're told that theology, especially Christianity, is against gay people. And I think that that's a narrative that was never in line with my experience with Christianity. Where I was taught to love everybody equally and treat everybody with respect and not judge others because that's not our place to judge other people.
But Sirbrian was talking a little bit about your relationship with Eric and going into the woods and spending time with him on a rock which is kind of like what the characters in that story in the Bible do right?
Devon: Yeah, they did. Cause they were hiding. They were hiding from the world of homophobia. And I never, it's hard for me to smile. Okay. Especially back then where homophobia was like stricter than it was now, I actually was smiling. When people would say, "You faggot," I would be like, " Yes, with a cape, I'm flying. I'm flying. Yes, I am. I am flying with my afro, with my pick in my afro. My nappy afro. Yes, I'm flying."
But we still went through problems that people can never imagine.
I know it may seem weird to people, but that is what held us together. I know I'm not supposed to have a relationship because I'm considered the alter ego, but I felt like I deserved love too. And I found love for the both of us. If people don't understand that, I don't know what else to say. Maybe you have to read the book to understand it. I know I kind of write different. Sirbrian writes kind of different.
Our minds think different because we both think differently. So sometimes one sentence may seem different than the other sentence. That's only because we alternate back and forth.
Casper: I think it's really cool that you both collaborated on this story and you were able to bring your voice into this as well and share your perspective. You're both beautiful writers and it's incredible in giving a perspective that i think some people are just really going to need to hear to know that they're not alone.
Devon: For Sirbrian to let me have the body that long to help write that book, it inspired me as the alter ego to write the third book. Hopefully we can join them together. Just the fact that, me as an alter ego is being heard as a real person. I wanted to ask you, is there any way that I can be put in the book some type of way as a writer?
Casper: Of course. Yes, we will definitely credit you as the author alongside Sirbrian.
Devon: Okay. But do you think that the world would accept me as an alter ego helping write in a book.
Casper: I think it will be a different experience for a lot of readers, but I think it'll be an experience that they will be glad for. And I think it will definitely help people understand all that you had gone through.
DORMANT STATE
Devon: Okay. All right, so you got any other questions?
Casper: Yes, I do have one more that I'm curious about because I've heard Sirbrian's perspective of where he goes when you have the body and what he experiences. But I'm curious as to what you experience when Sirbrian has the body.
Devon: Okay. When, I'm on the inside, I can't see nothing. All I can feel is heart thumping, and I can't see. Imagine how you would feel if your hearts thumping and you feel pain, anxiety going through your body. You don't know what direction it's coming from.
So soon as he's triggered and things trigger him so much. And for some reason he doesn't know that he should release the body over to me right away. But for some reason, he be trying to solve it on his own with all of these therapy techniques that they're trying to do. Not trying to say that it doesn't work.
So when I do get it, it's like I come more brutal than an average person. I don't mean to be because the situation would be different. Like sometimes like he was in a nightclub and he was dancing. And then when we went out, the two guys that was at the store was stuffing this trans woman out.
He wouldn't give it. He just wouldn't give it to me. I was like, "I can't hear, I can't see, gimme the body. I can't see, what is wrong with you? Let go of the body, how do expect me to help you?" He's not a fighter, he don't fight.
That's what gets me so mad about him. And that's why I wish therapy could help him with that. I know they don't want him to fight, but yo. So when I get ahold of the body, I take care of it ASAP. If I have to dislocate somebody's jaw, if I have to take somebody's arm off, whatever I got to do to protect that person.
And I know he wonders, "Why do you always got homo thugs walking with me, but they don't do nothing until you get the body," because I want to make sure I have enough to eliminate the situation, to take the situation away, because when I walk away that trans woman or anybody in the LGBT nation, I want them to know that "I'm safe. I'm safe again."
So that's how I feel on the inside, anxiety goes up because I don't know which way a knife is coming. People out there who are straight, they don't understand that we don't know how you're going to come at us. I think of Stonewall, the Stonewall movement.
And for those who don't understand, that's back when they allowed gays to be hurt and beat up and stabbed. And it was like, you shouldn't be gay, it's your choice." It's not a choice, we were born this way. So first day I'll think of that Stonewall.
Oh my God, which way they coming? Okay. I got my three boys out there waiting for me. So I don't want to seem like I want to do this. I don't want to be brutal, but I don't know which way you coming and I want to make sure I have triple the threat. So it don't seem like I'm a bad person. I have good in me. I have good intentions, it's just sometimes gay bashing hurts. It hurts so bad it created me.
Casper: Yes, I do have one more that I'm curious about because I've heard Sirbrian's perspective of where he goes when you have the body and what he experiences. But I'm curious as to what you experience when Sirbrian has the body.
Devon: Okay. When, I'm on the inside, I can't see nothing. All I can feel is heart thumping, and I can't see. Imagine how you would feel if your hearts thumping and you feel pain, anxiety going through your body. You don't know what direction it's coming from.
So soon as he's triggered and things trigger him so much. And for some reason he doesn't know that he should release the body over to me right away. But for some reason, he be trying to solve it on his own with all of these therapy techniques that they're trying to do. Not trying to say that it doesn't work.
So when I do get it, it's like I come more brutal than an average person. I don't mean to be because the situation would be different. Like sometimes like he was in a nightclub and he was dancing. And then when we went out, the two guys that was at the store was stuffing this trans woman out.
He wouldn't give it. He just wouldn't give it to me. I was like, "I can't hear, I can't see, gimme the body. I can't see, what is wrong with you? Let go of the body, how do expect me to help you?" He's not a fighter, he don't fight.
That's what gets me so mad about him. And that's why I wish therapy could help him with that. I know they don't want him to fight, but yo. So when I get ahold of the body, I take care of it ASAP. If I have to dislocate somebody's jaw, if I have to take somebody's arm off, whatever I got to do to protect that person.
And I know he wonders, "Why do you always got homo thugs walking with me, but they don't do nothing until you get the body," because I want to make sure I have enough to eliminate the situation, to take the situation away, because when I walk away that trans woman or anybody in the LGBT nation, I want them to know that "I'm safe. I'm safe again."
So that's how I feel on the inside, anxiety goes up because I don't know which way a knife is coming. People out there who are straight, they don't understand that we don't know how you're going to come at us. I think of Stonewall, the Stonewall movement.
And for those who don't understand, that's back when they allowed gays to be hurt and beat up and stabbed. And it was like, you shouldn't be gay, it's your choice." It's not a choice, we were born this way. So first day I'll think of that Stonewall.
Oh my God, which way they coming? Okay. I got my three boys out there waiting for me. So I don't want to seem like I want to do this. I don't want to be brutal, but I don't know which way you coming and I want to make sure I have triple the threat. So it don't seem like I'm a bad person. I have good in me. I have good intentions, it's just sometimes gay bashing hurts. It hurts so bad it created me.
FRIENDSHIP
Casper: I just am really grateful that you're willing to share your perspective. I think it's going to be so helpful for people to hear the reality of what personality disorder is and the reality of what violence can do, especially to a young child experiencing that. And I don't want to pigeonhole you into just being the protector of Sirbrian because I know that you are so much more than that so I wanted to ask what are some things that make you happy?
Devon: What makes me happy is when I see men who are female at heart show it in the light. I love people to show that I'm over here, I'm across the street.
This is where I'm at. That makes me so proud. Like, look. Yeah. We're purple haired up. I like that. That makes me feel so happy. That's what I'm talking about.
And now every day when I see the new generation, oh, it makes me feel so proud to know that it's younger people coming out now because of people like you, Casper, younger people, more younger people.
People want to have no problem being that stud like this is what I want. Yes. Yes. I am a man at heart. This is me. I'm so proud to let them know that this is what I am. This is me. Especially as me being older now, how people like me help break the stereotype in a way where it's safer enough for people to come out now, because I know other homo thugs in other states. So to know that it's stretched, that there's homo thugs everywhere. And that's what makes me feel happy.
Casper: It's really nice to know that we're moving more towards a place of acceptance. And I know that in the past, you've had people be scared to talk to you or be scared to be your friend. And I don't think that anybody needs to be scared of having a friendship with you. So if you meet somebody on the street, how would you hope that people approach you or how would you hope that people treat you?
Devon: See, when I have the body and I'm walking down the street, I'm very, Sirbrian doesn't know I'm sensitive, not sensitive in a way where I'm gonna cry. I'm always ready to protect. I feel like me protection is 24 hours a day, seven days a week, even when there's nothing going on.
So I feel like I had the whole world on my shoulders. So in the neighborhood, I be trying to dim it down.
A lot of people who know me, they be like, "No, don't walk over here, come across the street. That's B-Rock, you want to know about that boy, he got Personality Disorder. They weird, bro. Yo, cross the street."
That makes me feel very uncomfortable I want somebody to come to me as a person and be like, "Hi Devon." And the only people who come to me are swaggers, homo thugs, they the only ones that come say hi to me.
No one has come to me. They see me as an animal. And so see me as the human that I want to be seen as. I try to dim it down. That's why I'm in therapy. I'm trying to find that therapist to even help me, because I am a person. Like I need a therapist to understand all of this that's going on.
So to me, the only person that loves me is A.B.O. Comix. And I know the world out there, I don't believe people are gonna love me. I know the world would never love me. I don't supposed to exist. No one would ever love me.
No one would ever hug me and say, I love you Devon. And that hurts me every day, that no one would ever say they love me.
Casper: That absolutely breaks my heart. I'm so appreciative of you and Sirbrian for the huge impact that you have had in my life. You have taught me so much and I'm so proud of the progress you both have made. And you're part of my family. And I'm just, I'm so grateful for the chance to get to talk to you, for the chance to get to know you.
For the chance to get to help share your story with the world and help change people's minds. And I don't know anybody who could listen to this and not fall in love with you. So thank you for taking the time to share your story.
Devon: Thank you. And if at any other questions you have to ask me, me and Sirbrian talk about everything. And he said, trust Casper, just say it.
I willing to answer any question that you would like to be answered.
Casper: Thank you so much. I can't wait to get your second book out there into the world. Ollie and I are starting the editing process on it now. And we're both so excited for that. I can't think of any other questions right now but I definitely want to give you the floor if there's anything else you want to share.
Devon: I just want to say to everybody that's listening, if you know any homo thugs out there, give them a hug. If you know anybody who has an alter ego, give them a hug. Give them a hug.
Make them feel like that they human, because we deserve love too. And the world don't want us here and don't really love us. And don't really care about us, hug us because we do a lot of work. Because of me, Sirbrian is standing right now. He could of died years ago by his mother, he could have got murdered years ago.
I just want to say to all of the straight people, all the people that's heterosexuals out there. I know that everybody has homophobia in some type of way.
Maybe it's they make fun of somebody, or maybe it can go deeper than that, or maybe just doing it just to fit in. We're not here to say lose a friend, but someone start somewhere in the world out there and say, I can't be your friend no more if you want to be homophobic, that's all I'm asking, break the cycle.
Please say to some of your friends, that you've been friends with all this time, and you're not homophobic, you're not, they are, show us that you love us by just saying, "I can't be your friend no more because John, over here he's gay and I love him just like a brother. So if I have to lose our friendship to keep his friendship, Hey, I'm willing to do that." That's all I'm asking and help me get my book out there. That's it.
I'm just trying to find everybody out there that's like me. And for some reason it's so hard. I love y'all and I'm here if you want to ask me any questions, you can go through Casper. I'm here. I've been there and that's all I have to say.
Casper: Thank you so much, Devon. We're going to plug your book. We're going to have it for sale. We'll tell everybody where to get it. And I think that this is really just the beginning. I'm sure there's going to be so many great things for you and Sirbrian in the very near future. Anybody who hears your story, I think is going to be moved by it. So I really can't wait to see what happens next, and I wish you all the best.
Devon: Thank you.
Casper: Of course. Could you tell me a little bit about the process of bringing Sirbrian back and what that's like for you?
Devon: Okay. I have to picture...
I have to listen to every sound, everything moving.
I have to listen to the wind.
Every little sound. It has to be right. People don't understand that, it has to be right. The wind has to be right. It can't be loud. It can't be stormy, has to be right. If it was raining. If the rain is too loud, I'm not gonna let him have it, it gotta be right.
The TV can't be on. I can't have the TV on. I always have a light on all the time. It has to be as soft as a pillow. That's the only way I'm going to let him have the body. And it's hard because you don't know what sounds are real. You don't know what sounds are safe.
That's what scares me.
Casper: Do you feel safe now?
Devon: Yes, I do.
Devon: What makes me happy is when I see men who are female at heart show it in the light. I love people to show that I'm over here, I'm across the street.
This is where I'm at. That makes me so proud. Like, look. Yeah. We're purple haired up. I like that. That makes me feel so happy. That's what I'm talking about.
And now every day when I see the new generation, oh, it makes me feel so proud to know that it's younger people coming out now because of people like you, Casper, younger people, more younger people.
People want to have no problem being that stud like this is what I want. Yes. Yes. I am a man at heart. This is me. I'm so proud to let them know that this is what I am. This is me. Especially as me being older now, how people like me help break the stereotype in a way where it's safer enough for people to come out now, because I know other homo thugs in other states. So to know that it's stretched, that there's homo thugs everywhere. And that's what makes me feel happy.
Casper: It's really nice to know that we're moving more towards a place of acceptance. And I know that in the past, you've had people be scared to talk to you or be scared to be your friend. And I don't think that anybody needs to be scared of having a friendship with you. So if you meet somebody on the street, how would you hope that people approach you or how would you hope that people treat you?
Devon: See, when I have the body and I'm walking down the street, I'm very, Sirbrian doesn't know I'm sensitive, not sensitive in a way where I'm gonna cry. I'm always ready to protect. I feel like me protection is 24 hours a day, seven days a week, even when there's nothing going on.
So I feel like I had the whole world on my shoulders. So in the neighborhood, I be trying to dim it down.
A lot of people who know me, they be like, "No, don't walk over here, come across the street. That's B-Rock, you want to know about that boy, he got Personality Disorder. They weird, bro. Yo, cross the street."
That makes me feel very uncomfortable I want somebody to come to me as a person and be like, "Hi Devon." And the only people who come to me are swaggers, homo thugs, they the only ones that come say hi to me.
No one has come to me. They see me as an animal. And so see me as the human that I want to be seen as. I try to dim it down. That's why I'm in therapy. I'm trying to find that therapist to even help me, because I am a person. Like I need a therapist to understand all of this that's going on.
So to me, the only person that loves me is A.B.O. Comix. And I know the world out there, I don't believe people are gonna love me. I know the world would never love me. I don't supposed to exist. No one would ever love me.
No one would ever hug me and say, I love you Devon. And that hurts me every day, that no one would ever say they love me.
Casper: That absolutely breaks my heart. I'm so appreciative of you and Sirbrian for the huge impact that you have had in my life. You have taught me so much and I'm so proud of the progress you both have made. And you're part of my family. And I'm just, I'm so grateful for the chance to get to talk to you, for the chance to get to know you.
For the chance to get to help share your story with the world and help change people's minds. And I don't know anybody who could listen to this and not fall in love with you. So thank you for taking the time to share your story.
Devon: Thank you. And if at any other questions you have to ask me, me and Sirbrian talk about everything. And he said, trust Casper, just say it.
I willing to answer any question that you would like to be answered.
Casper: Thank you so much. I can't wait to get your second book out there into the world. Ollie and I are starting the editing process on it now. And we're both so excited for that. I can't think of any other questions right now but I definitely want to give you the floor if there's anything else you want to share.
Devon: I just want to say to everybody that's listening, if you know any homo thugs out there, give them a hug. If you know anybody who has an alter ego, give them a hug. Give them a hug.
Make them feel like that they human, because we deserve love too. And the world don't want us here and don't really love us. And don't really care about us, hug us because we do a lot of work. Because of me, Sirbrian is standing right now. He could of died years ago by his mother, he could have got murdered years ago.
I just want to say to all of the straight people, all the people that's heterosexuals out there. I know that everybody has homophobia in some type of way.
Maybe it's they make fun of somebody, or maybe it can go deeper than that, or maybe just doing it just to fit in. We're not here to say lose a friend, but someone start somewhere in the world out there and say, I can't be your friend no more if you want to be homophobic, that's all I'm asking, break the cycle.
Please say to some of your friends, that you've been friends with all this time, and you're not homophobic, you're not, they are, show us that you love us by just saying, "I can't be your friend no more because John, over here he's gay and I love him just like a brother. So if I have to lose our friendship to keep his friendship, Hey, I'm willing to do that." That's all I'm asking and help me get my book out there. That's it.
I'm just trying to find everybody out there that's like me. And for some reason it's so hard. I love y'all and I'm here if you want to ask me any questions, you can go through Casper. I'm here. I've been there and that's all I have to say.
Casper: Thank you so much, Devon. We're going to plug your book. We're going to have it for sale. We'll tell everybody where to get it. And I think that this is really just the beginning. I'm sure there's going to be so many great things for you and Sirbrian in the very near future. Anybody who hears your story, I think is going to be moved by it. So I really can't wait to see what happens next, and I wish you all the best.
Devon: Thank you.
Casper: Of course. Could you tell me a little bit about the process of bringing Sirbrian back and what that's like for you?
Devon: Okay. I have to picture...
I have to listen to every sound, everything moving.
I have to listen to the wind.
Every little sound. It has to be right. People don't understand that, it has to be right. The wind has to be right. It can't be loud. It can't be stormy, has to be right. If it was raining. If the rain is too loud, I'm not gonna let him have it, it gotta be right.
The TV can't be on. I can't have the TV on. I always have a light on all the time. It has to be as soft as a pillow. That's the only way I'm going to let him have the body. And it's hard because you don't know what sounds are real. You don't know what sounds are safe.
That's what scares me.
Casper: Do you feel safe now?
Devon: Yes, I do.
OUTRO
Casper: Thank you so much to Sirbrian and Devon for sharing their unique life story and what it was like growing up and maturing after experiencing childhood trauma. If you know a therapist that might be a good fit for Sirbrian, please reach out to us and be sure to check out his book, The Boy of Hearts, on abocomix.com.
There's a lot to look back on as we wrap up this first season. I don't know where the Teleway will go from here but this cosmic journey comes to you after a full year of stardust filled sweat and tears. Our incredible volunteer team learned how to make a podcast together despite the fact that none of us knew what we were doing at all. We didn't have fancy equipment, we didn't really know how to do post-production editing, we didn't have a studio. We operate out of a warehouse in Oakland that's directly across from a fire station and we have lots of noise each and every single day that we try to record this. It's been a real rollercoaster learning this from the ground up and I'm so proud of everybody who made this possible. We're trying to build the direction but if you enjoyed this first season, we could really use your support because we want to feature so many more stories.
Reflecting on this first season and how we got to this point in time has been deeply personal for me. Since A.B.O. Comix became more than just a figment of our imagination, I feel like I've finally left behind Casper, The Antisocial Ghost, and now I feel ready to be that Ghost Host with the Most and I absolutely can not wait for each new conversation. I know that I learned something incredible from everybody that I talked to and I have been blessed to call some of the coolest people to every walk these dusty floors my friend. I don't know what it's like to grow up inside prison walls but I know that the people who live there have taught me to be grateful for every day, to look towards the stars, and to create just for the magical sake of creation. My friends in prison help me find ways to smile on the darkest days and to love with my full and open heart every person that I meet. They have taught me to do better, to love harder, and to listen like it might be my last opportunity to do so. I hope this podcast has brought something meaningful into your life the same way it has mine. Thank you for listening to Teleway 411. We're powering down now for maintenance but we'll be back up and running before you know it.
Thank you to everyone who made this podcast possible. Shoutout to the Bay Area’s finest tattoo artist and my wife, Brett Baumgart, for their eternal support and assistance with every endeavor we pursue. Special thanks to our Teleway Conductors, Trig, L.A., Ollie, Caroline, Nic, Emma, Aryn, and Jo for their countless hours spent ensuring that we can provide a voice for those that have been silenced. Our Patreon supporters help keep the Teleway fueled and running smoothly. Thank you to Tuck, Fonee Pasta, Lawral, Gabriel, Casey and Cory. If you would like your name read in a future episode, become one of our subscribers at patreon.com/abocomix. To find out how you can contribute to our cause, visit abocomix.com. That's a-b-o-c-o-m-i-x.com.
There's a lot to look back on as we wrap up this first season. I don't know where the Teleway will go from here but this cosmic journey comes to you after a full year of stardust filled sweat and tears. Our incredible volunteer team learned how to make a podcast together despite the fact that none of us knew what we were doing at all. We didn't have fancy equipment, we didn't really know how to do post-production editing, we didn't have a studio. We operate out of a warehouse in Oakland that's directly across from a fire station and we have lots of noise each and every single day that we try to record this. It's been a real rollercoaster learning this from the ground up and I'm so proud of everybody who made this possible. We're trying to build the direction but if you enjoyed this first season, we could really use your support because we want to feature so many more stories.
Reflecting on this first season and how we got to this point in time has been deeply personal for me. Since A.B.O. Comix became more than just a figment of our imagination, I feel like I've finally left behind Casper, The Antisocial Ghost, and now I feel ready to be that Ghost Host with the Most and I absolutely can not wait for each new conversation. I know that I learned something incredible from everybody that I talked to and I have been blessed to call some of the coolest people to every walk these dusty floors my friend. I don't know what it's like to grow up inside prison walls but I know that the people who live there have taught me to be grateful for every day, to look towards the stars, and to create just for the magical sake of creation. My friends in prison help me find ways to smile on the darkest days and to love with my full and open heart every person that I meet. They have taught me to do better, to love harder, and to listen like it might be my last opportunity to do so. I hope this podcast has brought something meaningful into your life the same way it has mine. Thank you for listening to Teleway 411. We're powering down now for maintenance but we'll be back up and running before you know it.
Thank you to everyone who made this podcast possible. Shoutout to the Bay Area’s finest tattoo artist and my wife, Brett Baumgart, for their eternal support and assistance with every endeavor we pursue. Special thanks to our Teleway Conductors, Trig, L.A., Ollie, Caroline, Nic, Emma, Aryn, and Jo for their countless hours spent ensuring that we can provide a voice for those that have been silenced. Our Patreon supporters help keep the Teleway fueled and running smoothly. Thank you to Tuck, Fonee Pasta, Lawral, Gabriel, Casey and Cory. If you would like your name read in a future episode, become one of our subscribers at patreon.com/abocomix. To find out how you can contribute to our cause, visit abocomix.com. That's a-b-o-c-o-m-i-x.com.